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POV: Lumia 650, the last Lumia?? Even Surface Phone may arrive as a Lumia.

Lumia 650 white

There have been some reports claiming that Lumia 650 is the last Lumia coming from Microsoft and then we will see the hallowed “Surface Phone” later this year and we were the first one to report some probable specs of the Surface Phone. So, we have two serious issues with such reports that hardly produce anything substantial to support the narration and rather even ignore some very authentic sources.

So, for those talking about Lumia 650 to be the last Lumia, none other than Panos Panay has clarified saying the Surface Phone may be still coming as a Lumia, and Lumia will still exist as the Phone brand in future. Read the interview where Panos has provided this hint.

Now for the claim of no other devices than Lumia 650 coming in near future, RM-1182 has passed certification in both China and Indonesia and thus is destined for a global release sometime in future. And as per my memory serves, Nokia / Microsoft put efforts in getting certifications, only when the device is destined to see market and all the certified devices have made it to market till date. And there are not only certifications but other leaks too that provide string hint about a new Lumia mid-ranger coming.

Then there is one RM-1160 / RM-1162 family that was recently seen in Adduplex. So, may be not one we can see more than one Lumia device coming to market other than Lumia 650 in future.

So, if we carefully weigh all the evidences we have, it neither looks like that Microsoft is killing the brand Lumia nor Lumia 650 will be the last one to come to the market in even near future.

Nayan has more than 10 years of experience of covering Technology and innovations. He is a big Nokia fan and Tech disruptions aficionado. He loves to review new cool gadgets and writing about Android, iOS, Gadgets and general Technology stuff. He has been associated with other well-known Tech sites WinCentral and GadgetOx since long. He currently sports a Lumia 950 XL and Nexus 5X. Other interests include listening to Nu-Metal Hits and Kick-Boxing. Write to him at Email: [email protected]
  • Viktar

    Yes, that’s complete BS coming from Daniel Rubino, who is dreaming days and nights about Surface Phone coming.

    He is going way to far with this dreams, downplaying existing Lumia’s and spreading fud.

  • awaid

    by what dB’s is say I understand is that windows phone is dead I don’t think it is the case msft said already by themselves that more lumia with iris is coming they are wrong I don’t think they are

    & plus six phones a year let’s wait and see what we get after lumia 650 although I still hope there is at least one high mid ranger lumia rm 1182-1180 might be 850/750 whatever the name be released what you think kn

  • Microsoft Lumia Surface… anyone?… no?… k.

  • DBS

    Actually, couple of thoughts:

    – Panos did NOT say anything about the Surface Phone coming as a Lumia. That part of the report is written by The Verge and it’s NOT a quote of Panos’ declarations.

    Also, what the Verge wrote lacks an “if” in the text (otherwise the sentence doesn’t make any sense). So what The Verge (and not Panos) wrote was “hard not to see a Surface-inspired phone in the future even IF it’s still labelled as a Lumia.”

    – As for the other devices being spotted getting verified, and assuming those verification papers aren’t false (which they could be), there’s also no certainty that they represent different models. If the 650 is indeed geared towards enterprise, it will likely mean that Microsoft will be preparing that specific phone to address specific enterprise needs around the globe. And since different parts of the globe have different needs, it’s possible that all those RM versions are just variations of the 650.
    If Verizon gets the phone, they’ll need a special version. If China companies get the phone, they’ll need a special version. Etc etc.

    As for the ones spotted on Adduplex…well, adduplex isn’t really a very trustworthy source because it’s based on ads on Lumias. Now, all that it’s needed for the devices to show up if for them to exist. But that doesn’t mean the devices will be released. The 850 and 750 might have been done and in testing and have been cancelled later.
    And remember, Microsoft is NOT Nokia. They will cancel things before launch if necessary. Remember the Surface Mini that got axed right before the announcement and that Panos actually admitted to still personally use. So it is possible that the likes of the 850/750 got the same destination. They might be out there in the hands of some Microsoft employees being used. Doesn’t mean they’ll be launched.

    – Lastly we simply have to face the facts. Windows Phone flopped. Microsoft Mobile is a pit of wasted money for Microsoft. All Microsoft is getting out of the Lumia line is losses. So it IS very likely that the Lumia line may face the axe too. Actually, it didn’t face it before by a miracle.
    Microsoft will focus on the “Surface Phone” I’m sure. Because it will very likely not run Windows 10 Mobile at all but full blown Windows 10. The moment they succeed, the Lumia line gets axed along with Windows 10 Mobile.
    So I would not be surprised at all if the 650 is the last Lumia. The brand itself, unlike what some WP fans wanted to believe, never held any power with the consumers. It was the Nokia brand that sold Windows Phones. And once Nokia left, marketshare just came falling down because people simply didn’t care about the OS any more. Microsoft realised this.
    Windows 10 Mobile has no future. That’s clear as day. Microsoft knows that. So they’ll get rid of the Lumia line, and try the Surface Phone. That alone will cut a lot of the losses because the Surface phone will certainly not be cheap. If even the Surface Phone fails, Microsoft will just shut down their own Mobile efforts and focus on the successful mobile OSs available – Android and iOS. There’s a reason why Microsoft is putting so much of their software on those platforms already. Office, Skype, OneDrive, Outlook, Cortana, Word Flow…all of that is becoming available on Android and iOS because Microsoft knows software and services are more important today than operating systems. So when they shut down Windows 10 Mobile, they’ll already have a platform of software and services on Android/iOS to receive the last few people who remained with WP.

    • MuhsSalah

      I think u missed a big part of the quote from Panay. It is more than obvious that the surface phone is coming as a Lumia.
      “You always work off the foundation as a starting point, and this foundation we’ve got is phenomenal and the consistency will come.”
      The first two gens of surface tablets were sold at huge losses and the surface brand was worse than what lumia is now. Just like Nokia D&S division, the surface hardware part was written off. They built on the Surface foundation and look at what they have now. They have a better foundation with lumia so it’s obvious they will continue with it.
      Btw, ur comment has many errors but It is going to be a really long comment to recorrect them. Let just start with “windows phone market share declined when Nokia pulled off and Nokia brand has more value than Lumia”.
      Even though, I am still a Nokia fan( i really wanted to buy the N1 but couldn’t due to its restricted sales) , unfortunately windows phone proved that the Nokia brand doesn’t have much value anymore. After the deal of the buyout was completed in 2014, lumia sales continued strong and even better, they had record sales in 2014 Q4 and 2015 Q1, even though lumia phones were sold already under “Microsoft Lumia”. It was very surprising, considering that there was no “Nokia” on them. Check Microsoft quarter reports and adduplex reports for proof. Basically, as if it’s almost the “Nokia” brand equaled zero. Actually, Windows phone market share only fell in Q3 2015, that is because there was new handsets in 2015 except the low end 640 and no advertising material as Microsoft completely abandoned windows phone in 2015 to focus on windows 10 (mobile included), in addition to mention the app gap that still hunts the windows phone store.

      • DBS

        My comment is based on facts, nothing else. And no, I missed nothing. NOTHING on what Panos said indicated that the Surface Phone will come as a Lumia. Absolutely nothing.
        Saying they have a foundation means nothing. That foundation he talks about is Windows 10. It’s the camera tech they license from Nokia.
        When he says “Over time you want a consistent thread between the products, especially the hardware as well” it actually points more towards shelving the Lumia line and bringing the phone foundation to the Surface line. “Surface” isn’t just about tablets. The Suface Book is proof of that. A Surface Phone will go in the same direction. Panos will certainly want to align the hypothetical upcoming phones to the Surface strategy instead of the Lumia strategy.
        That means axing budget smartphones (which is what drove the Lumia line) and focusing on premium devices, “making sure we are able to get that consistent premium fit and finish that people are expecting from Microsoft.”

        The big difference between the losses of the original Surface RT and the Lumia line is that the Surface line was always a premium line. The loss Microsoft suffered on the Surface RT was vastly inferior to the losses they still suffer with the Lumia line. And again, what did Microsoft do with the Surface? Axed the lower end and focused on the Pro models.

        It’s not a matter of having written off the D&S acquisition or not. It’s a matter of the losses the products make for Microsoft. The Surface line brings profits. The Lumia brings losses. The Surface line carved itself a name on the market specially with the SP3. The Lumia line has done nothing but lose relevance in the market since Nokia detached itself from it.

        “windows phone proved that the Nokia brand doesn’t have much value anymore. After the deal of the buyout was completed in 2014, lumia sales continued strong and even better, they had record sales in 2014 Q4 and 2015 Q1, even though lumia phones were sold already under “Microsoft Lumia”.”

        Actually this is where you make the error.

        Until Q1 of 2015 you still had Microsoft selling Nokia Lumia devices. A bunch of them. The Nokia 530, 630, 635, 730m 830 and 930 were all being sold in that time period. Ever since those products reached EOL and Microsoft took them off the market leaving only Microsoft Lumias, the sales came down and the marketshare sunk faster than the Titanic. That alone indicates that, indeed, it was the Nokia brand selling the phones, not WP itself or Microsoft.

        “Windows phone market share only fell in Q3 2015, that is because there was new handsets in 2015 except the low end 640 and no advertising material as Microsoft completely abandoned windows phone in 2015”

        The crash in marketshare has nothing to do with no high end devices. There’s no point trying to convince yourself of that. The truth is, if you look at adoption numbers, high end devices NEVER represented any significant share of WP sold.

        Microsoft kept releasing low end devices – the ones that sold – ever since. They released the ML 430, 435, 532, 535, 540, 640, 640XL between November 2014 and April 2015. Microsoft released plenty of Microsoft Lumias during that period (7 models), targeted towards the only portion of the market where previous Nokia Lumias were popular – the low end segment. Marketshare simply plunged since then, specially once the Nokia branded phones disappeared. So no, sorry but the numbers only contradict the theory that the Nokia brand had no value. On the contrary. They just confirm that it was what was selling the phones. And while for a short time of coexistence between the two brands that may have benefited the early Microsoft Lumias (namely the 535 which was MS branded while the 530 was Nokia), the more time passed that the Nokia phones were retired, the more people started leaving and marketshare started sinking.

        As for the advertising materials…Microsoft never did much advertising outside the USA, no matter what the product. That didn’t prevent other products like Xbox or Surface to become popular. And even during Nokia’s time, Windows Phones never got really that much advertising outside the USA. That didn’t prevent Nokia from building the momentum they were building around an OS that had very little chances of success against the two well established players.

        The app gap is just a reflex of that plumb in marketshare. When Nokia was around and pushing WP forward you saw developers coming and apps coming, slowly but steadily. Nokia even managed to bring Instagram into WP. Since Nokia left, developers started to abandon the platform along with the users. Again, just look at the “Instagram BETA” which has been the same app since Nokia brought it. Sure, Microsoft said in September that Facebook was building Universal Instagram and Facebook apps for W10. But Microsoft said it, not Facebook. And have you seen those apps? No.

    • Shobin Drogan

      Actually i do not believe the screwing up of WP sales has anything to do with Nokia leaving. Lets be brutally honest here, nobody unless you are a diehard windows fan would know that Nokia has left MS, some people think Nokia shut down, some people think Nokia is still owned by MS. The fact is simple, only 70s-90s kids cherish Nokia phones, the current generation doesnt. However the sales of Microsoft branded / Nokia branded phones has no effect on people’s buying decision. What im basically saying is that Microsoft is the one fully responsible for the decline of their WP sales, for releasing extremely mediocre hardware year after year. Lets not forget that at one point in time windows phone was actually doing very well, it wasnt anywhere near android but it was stable and gradually climbing. That isnt true after recent microsoft’s offering mainly because they were not even remotely competitive with the hardware they offer.

      • DBS

        Actually pretty much everyone is aware that Nokia is no longer doing the phones. Where they are, yes, there’s still a lot of confusion. And many people think Microsoft bought Nokia. That’s a fail from Nokia’s PR teams, something which they’ll have to seriously address upon their return.
        But even those who don’t know the facts, they don’t see the name on the phones. So they don’t buy them. No one ever cared about the Lumia brand.
        Yes, the Nokia brand is very strong among people from the 80’s-2000’s however it’s not true that the new generation isn’t aware of the brand. There’re few people who don’t know the Nokia 3310 and that phone alone makes people associate Nokia with reliability and strong phones. Nokia’s lack of capitalization on that is simply because they never went with the OS they should have. Even before Nokia left, many people were aware of Nokia phones, they loved them but they wouldn’t buy them because they didn’t want WP.
        And yes, for a time WP was seeing growth, when Nokia was in charge of things. Actually, WP’s marketshare was steadily increasing under Nokia’s watch. People were buying because of the Nokia brand and giving the OS a shot. The moment Nokia left and Lumias became “Microsoft Lumias” the momento stopped and sales declined along with marketshare. The fact is, ever since Nokia left and the brand with them, marketshare dropped by 52%.

        But I agree, the flop of WP is Microsoft’s fault and no one else. The simple fact that all the GDRs that existed on WP8 were a result of Nokia’s requests to get more things on the OS show that. And a few Nokia employees have since said publicly that Nokia often wanted to do a lot of things and they couldn’t because of WP’s limitations. Microsoft never took WP seriously and even W10M is no different.

        I don’t agree, however, with the hardware argument. The truth is, flagship phones were NEVER the driving force of Lumias. NEVER. And since Nokia left, Microsoft produced a bunch of low end devices, the devices people were buying from Nokia. People simply didn’t want to buy them anymore. Because the trust factor that was present before – the Nokia brand – was no longer there. So, people were left with some random Microsoft phones running a OS no one wants.

        • Shobin Drogan

          I have to say I respectfully disagree to the point that Microsoft’s hardware on their phones didn’t cause them to fail, I strongly believe it’s the prime reason. Not just low end but the entire range. Lets just talk a few examples of lumias with exceptional value for money, the 520, 525, 620 were great success, the 540 735 and the final Nokia the 830, were extremely disappointing phones that not many actually bought. Why? Simple, crappy hardware, steep price. And Microsoft is continuing that trend by making awful hardware that nobody with their right mind would pay so much for. They used to be competitive, even compared to android, now they don’t care….at all

          • DBS

            The Nokia 830 was indeed overpriced. I have a gold edition of that phone to test WP10 on and while it’s a nice phone, I don’t think it commands the price they were asking.

            However, if you look back even at the 520 and 620, they didn’t come out at cheap prices either. The 620 for example cost upwards of 250€ and in many places it went to the 300€ mark. It was an excellent phone, no doubt, but the pricing was more into mid-range territory. And that was under Nokia.
            Actually, to be fair towards Microsoft, all their “Microsoft Lumias” came out at much more affordable prices than Nokia Lumias did.
            Now you can tell me that Microsoft just iterated on the same phone and that even this 650 is pretty much the same as the 640. True. However, for the common consumer, that’s not clear at all. The average consumer doesn’t know what on Earth is a snapdragon or what exactly does RAM do. They look at the phones, they look at the camera megapixel count, they look at the brand and at the price. And the thing is, when someone looks at a Microsoft Lumia, they see no appeal on it and they have no background on it. Whilst when someone would look at a Nokia phone and think “I’m not sure this price is fair but at least I know it’s a Nokia and this thing will last”, when they look at a Microsoft phone they only form the first part of that thought.

            Yes, Microsoft doesn’t really innovate on phones but then again…the division only bleeds them money. They have zero to no interest in keep losing money. And with the momentum Nokia had gone with Nokia, they see that there’s not only no future in the low budget market, there’s no future to the Lumia line either. Hence their attempt at a “Surface Phone”, something radically different that detaches the company from Windows Phone and the Lumia line that Microsoft ultimately killed when Ballmer launched the attack on Nokia’s D&S division.